Adam (00:00.47)
Welcome back to “Simplifying the State,” the podcast where we simplify politics so you don’t have to Google every headline like it’s a part-time job. As always, I’m Adam Watson.

Nicholas (00:11.106)
And I’m Nicholas Perrin.

Adam (00:19.126)
Okay, so today’s episode is an opinion episode, and today we’re going to be discussing basically the extent of Trump’s immigration policies in a wide sense up to this point of his second term. So they have not been going well in terms of civil liberties. I mean, I think they have been somewhat achieving their goal of deporting illegal immigrants, although they have deported a few non-illegal immigrants along with that.
Like today, they deported a two-year-old who was born in Louisiana because they didn’t want to provide necessary due process to the mother, who was not born in the United States. But the child was born in the United States, so it has citizenship.

Nicholas (01:09.569)
It?

Adam (01:27.37)
Whoops, I didn’t mean to refer to a baby as “it.” Okay, yeah, so they did not want to provide due process to that group, and that’s kind of something we’ve been seeing where the Trump administration has not been providing due process to some of the immigrants that it has been deporting.
So, Nicholas, what do you think?

Nicholas (01:39.116)
Well, I think that the mistakes that this has caused speak for themselves. I mean, it’s kind of expected to not be able to deport so many people so fast while still providing due process.
Basically, the Trump administration has two solutions for this: either one, deport people slower or not at all, or two don’t provide due process but do it fast. And they’ve chosen the latter option, which has led to, you know, deportations which should not have happened.
I think that was the—how many cases have there been yet? Yeah, like that one. And then the two-year-old. Weren’t there also a few others that were like that?

Adam (02:25.622)
Arbrego Garcia? Arbrego Garcia? What are you talking about?

Adam (02:34.142)
I mean, yeah, there have been a lot of deportations where the people were not provided due process, but those were the most standout ones that have at least been the most in the news recently.
I mean, yeah, I’m not sure what the Trump administration’s rationale is. I mean, clearly, they are not providing due process, which is against the Fifth Amendment. I’m sure they’d argue that the Fifth Amendment only applies to citizens, but I mean, if you actually read the text of the Fifth Amendment, nowhere in there does it say “to citizens.”
It says, “No person shall be denied due process.” It specifically says no person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.
Subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, no matter what people say on the internet, means basically—example—if you can be arrested by the United States government for committing a crime, you are then subject to the United States, meaning that the Fifth Amendment applies to you. And then also, birthright citizenship applies to you.
And that’s something that they have argued does not apply to people who are not legal citizens of the United States, but that’s a whole separate topic.
But I mean, the Trump administration is just blatantly violating the Constitution by not providing these people with due process.
I mean, they’re not just going after illegal immigrants. They’re also revoking student visas for people.
Then, like this, a student at Tufts who wrote a piece about their campus’ approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict wrote an opinion piece about that. The Trump administration said they were committing anti-Semitism, revoked their visa, and then, like, six ICE agents swooped her off the street and then sent her to a privately run ICE prison in Louisiana before judges could intervene.
They have intervened now and said that she must be returned to Vermont, which I think is where she originally was. But I mean, yeah, they’re just swooping people off the street and sending them to black sites in Louisiana.

Nicholas (05:18.764)
Yeah, that’s pretty awful.

Adam (05:22.326)
And then we talked about Arbrego Garcia. He was living in Maryland. He had protected status. He is, I think, an El Salvadoran national, I think.

Nicholas (05:38.529)
Yeah.

Adam (05:39.528)
Yeah, an El Salvadoran national. He was then taken into custody by ICE. He was then deported to the mega prison in El Salvador.
His lawyers could not get a hold of him. His family could not get a hold of him. And there was no due process for him.
He has since been moved from that mega prison to a different facility. They don’t know which facility—the press does, and I’m sure the people in El Salvador do—along with their leader, who has called himself the world’s coolest dictator.
So that just seems like a guy we should definitely be doing business with, but like…
I don’t even—this is just blatantly unconstitutional.
And then the Trump administration has also been defying judges, saying, “Stop doing this while we figure this out,” and then they’ve just been still deporting people.
The Supreme Court—there was a bus of Venezuelan immigrants who were being taken in Texas to be deported. The Supreme Court, in like the middle of the night, stepped in to say stop. It was like super quick from the time that the thing reached the Supreme Court to when they decided, which is very rare.
Mostly because I think they did not trust the Trump administration would not try to deport these people, or if they had issued the order while they were in the air, like has been previously done, they would have just possibly ignored it or said, “Well, we weren’t in American airspace,” or “We weren’t in America,” so we didn’t have to comply with that. And then they sent them on their way.

Adam (07:30.964)
So, I mean, it’s just a complete, seemingly disregard for the rule of law in this country.

Nicholas (07:41.472)
And I guess to the Trump administration, that might be okay to them because, quoting Trump here, “They are poisoning the blood of this country.”

Nicholas (07:55.954)
So yeah, it’s up to interpretation whether they care or not.

Adam (08:02.036)
I mean, they clearly don’t, how they’ve acted.
I mean, here’s the thing. If you cross the border illegally, you’re probably going to be deported. And if they follow—and if they do everything they’re supposed to do—they get them in front of a judge, the judge rules that they crossed the border illegally and that they are then to be deported, and then they are then deported—that’s fine.
That’s due process.
That is what is supposed to happen.
The person is supposed to go before a judge. The judge then decides what should happen, and then the government carries out the judge’s ruling.
That is what is supposed to happen when it comes to immigration.
The government is not just supposed to swoop in, take a person to an El Salvadoran mega prison without due process, without telling their lawyer where they are going, and then just, you know, just not let them have their day in court, which they’re supposed to do.
What do you think?

Nicholas (09:09.452)
Well, like, there was also this thing recently where a local judge was charged with obstructing immigration agents trying to—what was it? Like, they charged—

Adam (09:29.802)
Yeah, so, yeah, the judge apparently attempted to obstruct ICE from deporting someone while they were in the courtroom of that judge, and so then they arrested her.

Nicholas (09:39.626)
Yeah, and so if she is guilty of that, then that would be a result of—she would have a reason for doing that, and I think the reason would be, I guess, a sort of protest against the current administration’s policy of dealing with illegal immigrants and even U.S. citizens, as we’ve seen.
So I think public outcry to this is already showing a little bit.
And it has been showing in polls as well, because I think in most polls, Trump has shown a greater disapproval rating than approval rating.

Adam (10:22.678)
Yeah, I looked at it today. It was 41% approval rating and it’s like 100 days into office, which is like one of the lowest for a president this early on.

Nicholas (10:33.806)
Yeah, but I’m saying like specifically about immigration.
I think I saw 53% to 47% approval versus disapproval.
I think the closest margin I saw was 51% to 49%.
So not looking too good for him.

Adam (10:52.192)
Yeah.
And then here’s the thing, though: there are people who see this and they say, well, you know, that can’t happen to American citizens. You know, they’re only deporting the worst of the worst or something like that.
Here’s the thing: he might be coming for Americans next.
I mean, he, in the Oval Office, was caught on a hot mic discussing with the El Salvadoran president. He said, quote, “We’re going to send you the homegrown ones next.”
So he seems like he might want to—and he said this multiple times on the campaign trail—so this is not the first time he’s mentioned this.
So it seems like he might now be going to look at deporting American citizens who are not immigrants to El Salvador, too.
And I mean, once you do that, it’s a slippery slope.
Once you create a group that is then not subject to law or protections, then, I mean, what’s to stop the government from then looping anyone it doesn’t like into that group?
We’ve talked about the Tufts student journalist. Now they also deported two activists. They revoked their visas and deported two student activists who were engaged in the protests over the spring, the pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses.
They deported two of the people who were in charge of organizing those protests.
And again, here’s the thing.
If you commit a crime, you go before a judge and possibly a jury, depending on the situation. The judge rules, and then the government carries out the punishment that the judge rules on.
That’s how it works in the United States.
That’s how the judicial system is supposed to work.
The government does not just get to unilaterally take somebody and then send them God knows where without providing due process to that person.

Adam (12:59.478)
What do you think?

Nicholas (12:59.734)
I mean, yeah, as we’ve seen, Trump and his administration have been very blatantly violating the Constitution, and no real—
I mean, there have been lawsuits, but nothing directly that would, you know, cause him to need to step down or anything, as far as I know.
I’m not even sure if he could because of the immunity that the Supreme Court granted presidents.

Adam (13:34.742)
You mean the impeachment stuff? Or like, charging with crimes and stuff?

Nicholas (13:39.758)
For what, like the lawsuits?

Adam (13:40.884)
No, like you said, nothing that would cause him to step down.

Nicholas (13:45.782)
Yeah, I thought—like, I don’t know. I heard some lawsuits were being tossed around, but I wasn’t sure if they were like…

Adam (13:51.7)
You know, I think they have been sued, but I mean, I don’t think he’d step down over it, probably.

Nicholas (13:57.15)
Yeah, I was just wondering if there was any court case going on where he would need to step down because of them, and I don’t think there are.

Adam (14:04.084)
No, because I mean, the only way he would step down probably is if it was clear that Congress was going to impeach him and then convict him, which probably would not happen.
Because, I mean, that’s why Nixon resigned. It wasn’t because he felt he had done the wrong thing. It was because he got worried that Congress—he didn’t have the votes to stop them from both impeaching and convicting him.
So that’s why he stepped down.
But I mean, I was reading this article about—so there was this private mercenary group called Blackwater, and the guy who used to run it was apparently in talks with President Trump and then the leader of El Salvador to create this legal black hole in an El Salvadoran mega prison—like make some wing of it U.S. territory or whatever—so that they could send U.S. citizens there, but then the legality of it would be kind of iffy, like Guantanamo Bay.

Nicholas (15:39)
Yeah, I mean, I don’t want to call it the nuclear year just yet, but it seems like it’s heading in that direction.

Adam (15:50)
Yeah. I mean, like we said, this is just increasingly authoritarian — the deportation of people who have criticized the government, right? And now you have the possible deportation of U.S. citizens.
In my opinion, this is exactly what they’ve been building toward. They started slow, saying, “We’re only going to deport the worst of the worst.” Then you had cases like Abrego Garcia — as someone in the Justice Department admitted, his deportation shouldn’t have happened. He had no criminal record.
And now, they’re talking about possibly deporting U.S. citizens. At the same time, they’re revoking visas and deporting activists and student journalists.
So how long before you have, say, a protester — and remember, Trump’s talked about charging people who vandalized Tesla dealerships with domestic terrorism — how long before they decide to send those people to a mega-prison in El Salvador?
And once you do that, then it becomes about whoever the Trump administration deems a “threat to national security” or whatever label they want to slap on it. That’s how you slide further and further into authoritarianism.

Nicholas (17:30)
That about sums up the situation so far.

Adam (17:35)
Alright, Nicholas, do you have anything else to add?

Nicholas (17:41)
Actually, yeah — one thing. I think we should compare the U.S. to countries like Russia and Hungary. Not so much Poland anymore, but Hungary and Russia for sure.
Looking at how they became more authoritarian could help show the parallels to what’s happening here.

Adam (18:10)
Yeah, absolutely. If you look at a timeline of how those countries slipped into authoritarianism, you might see some really unfortunate similarities.
One last thing, though, before we wrap up: In Russia and Hungary, there wasn’t as much protest or resistance as their governments became more autocratic. Here in the U.S., though, we have a strong tradition of free speech, protest and assembly — rights that weren’t really protected in those countries.
It’s a uniquely American thing: the right to stand up and say, “We don’t like what you’re doing.”
So I encourage you — if you don’t like what the government is doing, go out and protest. Assemble peacefully. Let your voice be heard. That’s the best — and probably the only — way to push back against this administration if you disagree with what they’re doing.

Thanks for listening to “Simplifying the State.” We’ll be back next week with a new episode. Stay tuned. See ya!